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Moving in San Diego? Here’s a Budget-friendly Guide

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Looking for cheap San Diego movers?

I hear ya. Cost is definitely one of the most important factors for people planning a move — however, it’s not the only one! Moving is stressful, time-consuming, and you’re handing most of your stuff over to relative strangers. A slightly higher cost for better quality and peace of mind is worth every penny. 

One of the key things to look for is a trustworthy moving company with professional, responsible movers. This is especially important in California, which has become notorious for moving fraud (especially for out-of-state moves). 

 

“Don’t be afraid to hire additional moving helpers. While it might feel like you’re paying more, if you’re hiring moving labor by the hour, you could wind up shaving some time off the move…”

 

But what does a reliable moving company look like?

For one, make sure that they have their insurance policies up to date and licenses (MC#/DOT) in order. You’ll also want to search for some positive reviews from real former customers. Moving insurance can give you peace of mind as well — so can opting for a moving provider that offers a service guarantee. 

Below are some must-know’s for moving to and around San Diego!

San Diego Moving Options

movers load a white upholstered chair into a moving van

There are generally three options for moving in San Diego: do-it-yourself, hybrid, and full-service.

  • DIY is going to be your most budget-friendly option. You’re not hiring professionals to help you out, so you just need to pay for your truck, your supplies, and so forth. The tradeoff is all of the extra time and labor your move will require.
  • Hybrid is the option where you pay for help for part of the move, but still do the transportation yourself. In other words, you pay for moving helpers to load or unload your things, while you rent and drive the moving truck.
  • Full-service means that movers come to your house, pack your things onto their own moving truck, drive your belongings to your new place, and unload everything into the proper rooms. There are some options that have you pack your own stuff into boxes first, but typically full-service takes care of your move from start to finish. Naturally, this means it’s the most expensive option. 

See prices for local moving labor. Read real customer reviews. Easily book your help online.

San Diego Moving Costs

The moving style you pick from above will greatly impact how much you pay for your move. Keeping in mind that a number of factors can vastly skew the overall total cost of a move (including things like gas, moving insurance, overnight lodging, and more), here’s a quick overview of how moving costs might compare for these different options:

  • Local DIY move: $175–$475
  • Local hybrid move: $350+
  • Local full-service move: $700+
  • Long-distance DIY move: $1,000–$5,000+
  • Long-distance hybrid move: $1,300+
  • Long-distance full-service move: $2,000+

San Diego Moving Cost by Move Size

a moving truck being packed with furniture and boxes

Your costs will, of course, depend on the size of your own move. In most cases, final price is determined by the total volume of your belongings. But if you’re like me, trying to guess that number before you’ve packed a single box feels like some kind of high-pressure carnival game. The easier way to know how expensive your move will cost is to go by how many rooms you have.

 

“Most people in San Diego use a 20-foot truck to move their stuff. Naturally, people with less furniture might get away with something smaller…[while] those with very large homes might want to go for a large truck (18–24 feet long).”

 

Below, you’ll find cost estimates for different move sizes (including both loading and unloading) in San Diego:

Size Movers Needed Number of Hours Square Feet Avg. Move Cost*
Studio/Small Apt 2 4 Up to 800 $632
2–3 Bedroom Apt 2 5 800–1,200 $787
2–3 Bedroom House 3 7 1,000–1,500 $1,370
4+ Bedroom House 4 7 1,500–2,000 $1,960
*Labor only for a short-distance local San Diego move. This doesn’t include truck rental costs.

Of course, you’ll want to account for any additional factors, like whether your building has a lot of stairs (movers often charge for extra stairs) or if you have fragile or extra-heavy items (not a fridge, more like a hot tub).

Pro tip: Don’t be afraid to hire additional moving helpers. While it might feel like you’re paying more, if you’re hiring moving labor by the hour, you could wind up shaving a ton of time off the move — which will save you way more money in the long run.

San Diego Movers FAQ

view of the san diego skyline

Now that we’ve covered the big-picture details, let’s take up some of the finer points. Here are some of the most popular questions about moving in San Diego.

How much do movers in San Diego cost?

In San Diego, an average move costs about $429*. 

That is the average cost of two movers working approximately three hours in San Diego. (See more averages in the chart above, or get a custom quote directly from HireAHelper.)

*Median cost of labor-only moves purchased within San Diego on HireAHelper.com in 2023

How long does moving take in San Diego?

Most moves in San Diego take three hours per job.

Factors include the size of the home you’re moving, if you’re having movers help with both loading and unloading, and the distance you’re traveling in between. Traffic and time of day also matter — a friend of mine once paid an extra $300 for her move simply because the truck got stuck in rush hour on the highway! Yikes!

See prices for local moving labor. Read real customer reviews. Easily book your help online.

How many movers do I need for my move in San Diego?

With two movers, you can complete most moves in San Diego in a reasonable time. Adding at least one more mover might expedite the process, which is recommended for larger homes.

Keep in mind moving companies have a minimum number of movers you’re required to hire per job, and that number is typically two. 

What size truck do I need when moving in San Diego?

Most people in San Diego use a 20-foot truck to move their stuff.

Naturally, people with less furniture might get away with something smaller — and, likewise, those with very large homes might want to go for a large truck (18–24 feet long). But for most people, a 20-foot truck should be just right.

When is the best time to move to San Diego?

The day of the week and time of year you choose to move can significantly impact your overall moving costs. Here are the best times to move for budget-conscious planners:

  • Expect to save in February: One reliable truth no matter where you’re moving in the U.S. is that it’s going to be more affordable during the winter — and the same is true in southern California. The most wallet-friendly month to move in San Diego is February.
  • Try to move on Mondays: Another helpful insight is the fact that weekdays, and especially Mondays, are prime moving days, as they’re less busy. Avoid rush-hour windows, like early morning and later in the afternoon, and instead aim to start your move at about 11 a.m.

It’s tough to know exactly how much any move will cost (financially, emotionally, or otherwise) at the start of your planning process. But by breaking down the essential choices about your move and using the data above, you can set realistic expectations and set the stage for a successful moving day.

I’m a Millennial and I Hired Movers, Here’s What Happened

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After a lawless period of asking my friends for help moving throughout my early twenties, then straining my romantic relationships in my late twenties, I have arrived in my thirties ready to embrace movers! Like a lot of young people though, I didn’t exactly know how hiring movers even worked.

But when our dream Los Angeles apartment dropped into our lap, I found myself at a crossroads. Half the judgemental voices in my head were screaming to do the heavy lifting myself, while the other half murmured exhaustedly that I’m too old for that.

One thing both voices agreed on, though, was hiring movers for free. I couldn’t have been more delighted when HireAHelper stepped in to help me out. Yep, they offered me an all-expenses-paid move! (Though we did cover the tip ourselves, which I hope serves as a reminder whenever you get something for free.)

All that was expected of me in return was to book it myself and give an honest review. So here goes.

How Does Getting Movers Actually Work?

Whereas my previous moves inevitably began about a week (or let’s be honest, a few days) before the move as I threw everything into boxes, the conversations about this move started a whole couple of months ahead of my move.

Turns out, for a local move you can book shockingly affordable professional movers online without having to even talk to anyone, and it doesn’t even matter if it’s next day or next month. (But as you might imagine, the early bird gets the worm.)

All you need to be able to see hourly rates is a ZIP Code and a hypothetical move date to see who’s available near you — that’s literally it. 

Third-party sites like HireAHelper.com keep moving companies honest.

Or if you’re brave like me, you can just call and talk to a real-life customer service person. She got me mover booked in like, literally five minutes. (Sidenote: I learned booking a long-distance move needs a little more communication, but it’s the same basic idea.)

What does a moving company ask you when you book movers?

For a local move like mine, not a whole lot, honestly. Over the phone (and its the same online), they asked me:

  • The rough moving date
  • Distance traveling (aka a second ZIP Code/address)
  • Type of residence (e.g., home, apartment, condo, business, etc.)
  • Number of bedrooms
  • If you want labor-only or need them to bring a truck

Four out of five of those were easy answers — we were moving our West Hollywood one-bedroom apartment five miles east to Los Feliz, which qualified it as a local move — but the date itself was seriously up in the air.

After giving these few details, the person on the phone suggested how many movers I’d probably need and how many hours they’d likely need to finish my specific move.

I was still worried about the date though. We were initially told we could move in at the beginning of the month at the earliest, and definitely by the 15th, but I was starting to get a little suspicious that construction was going to take longer. 

Not knowing the exact moving date is a fact that would 100% have derailed me if I was doing this by myself, but luckily, my new friend Sandy didn’t seem bothered by that issue at all. She told me we should just get a date on the calendar and we could always move it later. 

Sandy was able to score me an appointment with Rigo’s Moving & Storage, one of LA’s top-rated moving companies. (They currently have a 4.9 rating out of 5, with nearly 500 reviews.) 

 

“Honestly, my most difficult task was figuring out what to do while everyone around me was being so industrious, but it was over so quickly that I hardly even had time to get uncomfortable”

 

Instead of belated “sorry, can’t make it” texts from my weary friends on the day-of, I got confirmation emails from HAH and Rigo’s in quick succession, and just like that, the move itself was off my plate. I suddenly felt like I could focus on work, packing, and the many other stressors that come with a move. 

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What happens before moving day?

On the Monday before the beginning of the month move — yes, I was right about the construction — my phone rang. My immediate thought? “Omg, my friend with the van is about to bail.” But then I snapped awake, remembering that I’m not in my twenties anymore.

It was actually my moving company, calling to confirm my 9:00 a.m. appointment later that week. Then the evening before the actual move, I received yet another call. I thought it might be one final confirmation, or Rigo’s coming to their senses and ditching me to go to brunch, but it turned out to be HireAHelper reviewing my info for the next day. 

On the phone, my movers asked if there was a reason for booking a 12-foot truck, which he thought was kind of small. He then asked if they could send a 26-foot truck instead, free of charge, just to make sure his team didn’t have to make multiple trips.

Sure now that this was a prank call from Ashton Kutcher and that I didn’t have movers coming at all, I agreed. (And it turns out, no, HireAHelper did not put them up to this.) The main thing I contributed was packing.

What exactly happens on moving day?

The next day, right smack dab in the middle of the moving window, I got another call. Now, surely, this would be the moment when everything fell apart and I’d have to make twenty sweaty car trips while my boyfriend and I stewed in irritated, exhausted silence.

But nope! It was a heads up that our movers were ten minutes away, followed by another when they were right outside. (If you’re keeping track, that’s four separate phone calls confirming and communicating about a single move, which was incredibly reassuring to someone scarred by the stress of previous moves.)

Before I knew it, four movers descended on our apartment and asked for a few details on what was going and what was staying before launching into work. A big part of me was still assuming I’d get put to work, but in a ceaseless wave of motion, they:

  • Plastic-wrapped furniture
  • Disassembled our bed frame
  • Took endless rounds of boxes down the apartment complex stairs

Honestly, my most difficult task was figuring out what to do while everyone around me was being so industrious, but it was over so quickly that I hardly even had time to get uncomfortable.

Okay, then what happens during the unload?

After just over an hour, our apartment was empty and the Rigo’s guys told us we could head to the next location; they were already prepped with the address, so nobody needed to wait on each other. (A far cry from having a three-car caravan follow me to the new address and inevitably losing one of my ducklings at every traffic light and having to circle back.)

We drove all of 20 minutes to Los Feliz and arrived just as the window for our moving permit was opening, so there was plenty of space available on our street for the upgraded truck. (I had to reserve a time with the city to make room for the trucks by the way!) 

 

“…in the process of squeezing up and down the stairs, there was some scuffing that happened to the newly-painted walls…I pointed it out to one of the movers…and he assured me that he’d already taken photos and that someone would be reaching out to make sure I got compensated.”

 

This side of the move was decidedly more difficult, as our new apartment has an upstairs (!!!) and a lot more space, so I posted up in the living room to direct traffic. I’d also labeled each box with either a “UP” for upstairs or a “D” for downstairs so that I wouldn’t need to be present for every decision. (The habit of giving up control apparently dies hard.)

One of the movers got right to work upstairs reassembling our bed frame, calling down to me to make sure he’d placed it in a position I’d like (okay, communication!!), while the other three made trip after trip to the truck, coaxing the dolly up the outside steps and carefully negotiating larger items up the cramped indoor staircase.

They would have been well within their rights to complain, as I have nonstop when helping friends move in the past. But the funny thing about people being paid instead of doing you a favor is that they’re as motivated to do it quickly and well.

Then it was over?

At least I was sweating by the time the last box had made it inside, but it all still felt like it was over in a snap. Three hours might sound like a long time for a move, but it pales in comparison to the 10- and 12-hour marathons I’ve put myself through in the past. 

But this time around, my lovely boyfriend verified that all our items made it on a spreadsheet he’d prepared, I signed the paperwork for Rigo’s, and our four-person team was out the door and back in their truck, all before noon, and with no greasy pizza boxes to clean up or anything!

Post-Move Thoughts

With a bit of hindsight to mull things over, here’s what I think: If I had this move to do over again, I would change very little, even if I was using my own money. 

There were for sure little things that weren’t ideal, like the fact that two of our movers didn’t wear masks. (To be fair, I was too nervous to ask them to, but if you find yourself in a similar position, please ask! You’re paying for a service, and you’re absolutely in the right to expect your movers to adhere to both public health guidelines and those COVID-19 policies laid out by HAH.)

Another small downside is that in the process of squeezing up and down the stairs, there was some scuffing that happened to the newly-painted walls. Feeling very thirty-something, I pointed it out to one of the movers when I signed the paperwork, and he assured me that he’d already taken photos and that someone would be reaching out to make sure I got compensated. 

But other than those two things, honestly, everything went beautifully.

The move could not have been faster or smoother, our sectional is stable, the bed frame was rebuilt beautifully, and not one single item I moved was damaged in the process. My boyfriend was so enamored with this move that he says next time we should have the movers pack for us, too. To which I say… but then what would we fight about??

How Much Will Your Move Cost? Here’s How to Figure it Out

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So how much does a move cost? It all depends. Years of moving experience shows that customers typically fall into one of three categories:

  • Gazillionaire
  • Employee relocating on the company’s dime
  • Confused soul wondering aloud, “Good gosh, how much is this going to cost me?”

As you probably guessed, most of us are the third one. AMSA, the American Moving and Storage Association, tells us the average in-state move costs $1,170, while interstate moves average $5,630. But take that with a grain of salt, because the real answer lies is in the details of your specific move—from off-base estimates to logistical issues, from slower-than-syrup movers to incidental expenses, all big and small.

So how is it possible to even come close to predicting the final number so we don’t go into shock when we’re handed the bill?

Some things are out of our control, but there are definitely things you can do and look out for to make the moment we get that final bill pleasantly unsurprising.

The Baseline Cost of Moves

These are the basic questions you need to ask ahead of a move:

  • Are you getting a Full-Service moving company to handle everything?
  • Are you renting your own truck, then hiring moving labor separately?
  • Are you doing everything yourself?

These are known as the three basic ways to move: A Hybrid Move, a Full-Service Move, and a DIY Move.

How much do movers cost?

Getting a Full-Service Move? That means the movers load, unload, and drive the vehicle all on their own. The estimate? Though it will largely depend on the distance traveled and volume of the move, Full-Service Moves run north of $1,500-$2,000, on average, and sometimes can be more expensive if it’s a really big move.

Hybrid Moves, on the other hand, separate moving labor from moving vehicle. That means you hire a mover to load and/or unload your stuff, then rent the moving truck on your own, saving you a lot of money. Roughly, the cost can run anywhere between $300-$1,000 for a truck and movers, occasionally more.

What’s the cost difference between a long distance and local move?

Local or state move? You’re looking at roughly anywhere between $100 to $300 for the moving truck, depending on the size needed and after accounting for mileage and insurance fees.

Moving long distance? Like, across the country? This will likely cost around $1,000 after gas and fees, plus potentially lodging and food.

As for local movers, prices vary dramatically based on scheduling and location. Moving during a busy summer is just going to cost more than during the dead of winter. Movers’ hourly rates also vary, depending on the size and distance of your move.

Here are some generalized queries on price ranges for “2 Helpers for 2 hours”, taken straight from HireAHelper.com:

  • Boston, Massachusetts: $250-$350
  • Austin, Texas: $200-$300
  • Baton Rouge, Louisiana.: $300-$400
  • Los Angeles, California: $250-$400

Of course, some movers do charge more, or sometimes less. Check out our movers’ reviews, give a few of them a call, get some estimates, and then go with who you feel best about.

You might love our:

Moving Cost Calculator

If the quote from your movers felt expensive …
Make sure it lines up with the costs reported by other Americans.

Finally, there’s the DIY Move, which hides plenty of hidden costs, such as:

  • Gasoline
  • Power tools
  • Moving supplies
  • Pizza and beer
  • Heavy stress

Not to mention what it does to close friendships and schedules. You can get away with casually moving a bedroom with some friends, but let’s just say that in the past, I wish I had spent a couple hundred bucks to have had total peace of mind for those really stressful moves. As a mover, I recognize I am biased, but I am also just a person who has moved many, many times—just like you.

Why do random internet searches for movers cost more?

Moving estimations are rarely conservative. That’s because it’s dreadful to be ill-equipped and strapped for time, versus the other way around.

No matter which one you choose, having someone come out and do a thorough visual of your place and all your belongings can be an extra useful way to get the most reliable estimate of how much your move will cost, as it’s an estimate based on time needed.

Getting an estimate over the phone? That’s cool, but keep these two things in mind:

First, if someone can’t see all the things you want moved, no matter how pure their intentions, it is ultimately a guesstimate.

Why should I avoid “move brokers”?

Secondly, unfortunately, it’s a very real possibility that the “moving company” you quickly searched for on the internet is actually just a move broker.

That’s another term for a middleman who will assure you that they can give you an accurate quote – which will sound too good to be true – then sell your move to the highest bidder. That person will then come out (most likely in a rental truck) and load up your stuff … before telling you that your final bill will be a lot higher than you were originally told.

It happens every single day. Don’t let it happen to you.

That’s why after 20 plus years of experience moving people, I write for HireAHelper, a moving labor marketplace. All the movers are real movers with real reviews, which means absolutely zero of them are move brokers. Everyone here is the real deal.

See prices for local moving labor. Read real customer reviews. Easily book your help online.

Still, marketplace or not, keep in mind that the more stuff you have, the more important it is to get an in-person estimate so your movers can give you a good idea of how many people you’ll need for how many hours.

Extra, Hidden Mover Costs

How much stuff you have isn’t the only thing that determines the cost of your move. Here are some other important factors that some moving companies take into consideration when giving quotes:

  • If the path from your door to the truck involves stairs or an elevator
  • If the distance from your door to where the truck will be parked is particularly long (meaning 75 feet or more)
  • If your movers can’t get their tractor-trailer anywhere near your place and they have to use a smaller truck to shuttle your stuff from your driveway to the big rig
  • If you have any (or a lot of) heavy, bulky or unusual items, like pool tables or gun safes

All or some combination of these will likely bring your quote up. This is another reason an in-person estimate is important. But if you do find yourself having to give movers a run-down of your stuff over the phone, be sure to let them know the lay of the land so no one ends up surprised. Also, don’t forget to potentially tip your movers.

Total: 

Local Hybrid Move: ~$350+

Local Full-Service Move: ~$700+

Long Distance Hybrid Move: ~$1,300+

Long Distance Full Service Move: ~$2,000+

Optional, Accidental and Potentially Hefty Costs

There are some potentially optional costs that can add up quickly.

Packing Costs

Doing your own packing? Be aware that boxes can get expensive—a couple of bucks a pop on average.

Meanwhile, packing paper goes for around $30 per 25-pound bundle, and box tape runs at minimum a dollar per roll.

Thinking of using bubble wrap? Plan on dropping anywhere from $20-$50 a shot.

You’ll save some cash by doing your own packing, but your packing supplies can run you a couple hundred bucks, at least.

Total:

Moving boxes: ~$0-25

Packing supplies: ~$35-75

Packing help: ~$75-100

Rental Trucks

Renting a truck? You may find one for $20 or $30 or $50 a day, but gas, tolls, equipment rental, liability insurance, mileage charges and any fees included in the fine print of your rental agreement add up fast. Plus, obviously, the bigger the truck you need, the more it’ll cost. Not to mention, some days are busier than others (e.g., holidays, weekends, etc.), and you’ll get charged more for a last second rental. (Read this rental truck guide for more info.)

If you are moving long-distance, you also need to factor in food and lodging. And by the way, if you’re driving that truck, how are you going to get your car to your new home? All of this basically means one thing: get a quote on a moving truck early. 

Total: 

Local (or daily) moving truck: ~$75-300+

Long distance moving truck: ~$1,000-5,000+

How much does insurance cost?

Planning on getting your stuff insured? Full-service moving companies offer free basic coverage against loss or damage, equaling 60 cents per pound for any lost or damaged item. If you are okay with getting fifteen bucks in return for your newly-smashed flat screen TV, then this is the plan for you. That’s called valuation, not insurance.

If you want to be actually insured, you’ll want to consider paying for coverage that actually means something—which will cost you a percentage of what your stuff is worth in total.

 

What Moving Insurance Actually Does

(And why it might not help you!)

Total:

Insurance cost is completely relative to the item you insure (as well as how far you take it). Taken from MovingInsurance.com FAQ:

The cost of the insurance, or premium, is based on a proportional rate, relevant to the declared value of your shipment and the level of deductible you have chosen, and includes an administrative fee. Rates vary depending on your insurance type as well as based on your household goods’ final destination, whether be locally, out of state or internationally.

Storage and Lodging

And if your new home isn’t ready when you are? This unfortunate possibility comes with having to shell out more cash for the extra time your stuff has to sit on the moving truck, the extra time you have to hold onto your rental truck, or the storage space you have to rent until your home is finally ready for you. You might not include such expenses in your moving budget, but be aware of the potential for things to go wrong. There’s even the hotel cost if you’re moving for more than a day.

And what if you don’t get your life all packed up on time? You’ll have to hire packers last-minute. Obviously, this situation is entirely avoidable. All you have to do is make a careful and calculated estimate as to how long it will take you to pack everything. Then whatever time frame you come up with, multiply by two and a half. (Seriously.)

Total: 

Storage container costs depend on their size and distance driven. Taken from Moving101:

You can move locally or long distance, but moving containers are more affordably suited to local moves of small houses or apartments…mostly because you need to rent out more than one container for larger homes, which raises the fee. And the costs associated with the company driving the container long distance (read: paying the driver, fuel, insurance, etc.) all pile onto your bill, but then again, you’re not driving that massive truck 2,000 miles in 110-degree heat. Tradeoffs. Prices range from just under $500 for a local move (with the largest container) to more than $5,000 for a long-distance move (with two of the largest containers).

Incidental Costs

After moving people day in and day out for decades, I’ve heard everything under the sun when it comes to random moving costs the customers weren’t expecting. But the thing is, they almost are never random, just unexpected. The list of sometimes surprising incidental costs include:

  • Restocking your pantry/kitchen, and replacing items you got rid of
  • Paying deposits on utilities, cable, and public services at your new home
  • Sucking up any cancellation fees or broken contract penalties for things like cable, phone and health club membership
  • Repairing damage in your old home – or losing your security deposit if you don’t
  • Changing your driver’s license and car registration
  • Running a credit check to pass along to your new landlord and new utility companies
  • Picking up all the little things you need for your new home: light bulbs, shower curtain, shades/curtains for the windows, cleaning supplies because you used up and wore out everything cleaning your old place so you could get at least some of your security deposit back
  • Getting socked with penalties for being late paying bills because your mail didn’t get forwarded promptly, or you missed a bill altogether

Apartment Costs

Also, are you renting a new apartment? Obviously, don’t forget you have a security deposit as well as first and last months’ rent to shell out. Those can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars to the value of the entire month’s rent. Buying a new home? That’s another topic altogether, but with that comes closing costs, realtor fees, appraisal costs, inspection fees, attorney fees and more. Yay!

Long-term Costs

There’s another part to this incidental list, which includes moving costs that are repeating or more long-term in nature.

  • Does parking cost where you live, and how much?
  • What are the average car and health insurance rates in your new state?
  • With your new home will you be subjected to building maintenance fees? Property fees? Homeowners’ association fees? Do you have to buy special trash and recycling bins?

That’s a lot of stuff to take into account, huh?

Figuring out what your own move will cost is all about specifics, not averages. So get that in-person estimate (more than one, if you are able). Use a moving cost calculator. Find a deal on a reliable rental truck (and remember to read the fine print). Check out rates for coverage against damage. Keep an eye on all those incidental charges and keep a list of things you’ll need at your new place.

If you feel like taking the easy route, you might want to consider getting a quote from Moving Place, a long distance moving company that can work with your budget. They take care of transportation, like booking your truck, driver and related costs. All you have to do is pack and get ready to start a new chapter in your life!

And please, leave yourself plenty of time to pack!

Illustrations by Vicki Tsai
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